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Nov 21st, 2017, 3:08pm 
   Atelier Démocratique
   New views & staff types

   Piano Roll
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   Author  Topic: Piano Roll  (Read 15412 times)
Question: Do you support the proposal below?

Yes     72 (78.2%)
No     20 (21.7%)

Total votes: 92

Please read this before voting

     

Olivier Guillion
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Piano Roll  
« on: Nov 8th, 2005, 5:52pm »
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Description:
New staff type: Piano roll staff, where notes are displayed as more or less wide rectangles instead of the standard notation (pitch is indicated by the vertical location of the rectangle and length by its width).
 
Difficulty:

 
Product(s):
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Olivier Guillion
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marce
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10th, 2005, 6:33pm »
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The difficulty comes from make the piano roll become displayed in the same windows where is displayed the staff or in make that MA/HA can manage diffrent windows of a same document? I mean, suppose you have an staff, and you open a new windows where the piano roll is displayed.
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Marcelo Colina
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James Warren
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #2 on: Nov 10th, 2005, 9:46pm »
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Even if existing users don't feel a pressing need for it, this feature could increase the appeal of HA/MA to potential new users who would otherwise be put off by musical notation or who see HA/MA only as a notation software.  I also don't see why the rectangles couldn't be measured to stay within the bars of the other traditional staffs coexisting within the same score.  If HA/MA could mix and match these two types of sequencer input styles they would, at the very least, become a completely unique type of music program.
« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2005, 9:48pm by James Warren » offline
marce
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 2:56pm »
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Casually i was reading the hitsquad newsletter, and found a free java proggie with an interesting screenshot:
 

 
It use a standard staff, with rectangles associated to duration, and BLUE color for sharps.
 
Well, an idea.
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2005, 2:56pm by marce » offline

Marcelo Colina
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NICOU59
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #4 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:03pm »
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Moi je ne suis pas pour l'apparition de ce pianoRoll que j'ai fuit longtemps avant de découvrir Harmony qui me donne des résultats auditifs satisfaisant et qui me permet d'écrire la musique quasi comme sur le papier.
Je trouve que les outils d'éditions sont trés comprénsible dans Harmony pour toute personne lisant et écrivant la musique.
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #5 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:17pm »
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Nicou, i guess it`s not intended to "replace" the staff view, only to "complement" it.
Where you really will see how convenient it is is when you are DRAWING curves (volume, pitch, and any of them). With piano roll you visually know accurately Where the note Start and where it ends.  
With the standard note view you never are sure where exactly you must start or end the drawing of curves.
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Marcelo Colina
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #6 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:23pm »
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Pour l'édition plus fine des courbes de volumes, de reverb... je suis d'accord, c'est vrai qu'actuellement on manque un peu de repères pour agir finement.
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Laurier
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #7 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:28pm »
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I voted against this feature. I think this is just a way of bypassing the "real thing" to which you'll have to get to sooner or later. It looks harder to use than real notation. If you want to learn music, why not learn the right away from the start? There are many web sites in many languages offering free basic music lessons. Besides, just by fooling around with MA/HA, anyone will soon get the hang of it. There are several posts on the main forum to testify that it does work for many people who knew nothing about music from the start. I think that there are more useful features to be implemented in HA/MA than this one.
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Olivier Guillion
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Re: Piano Roll   pressuredelay.jpg
« Reply #8 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:42pm »
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Isn't this view (display pressure & delay) close enough from piano roll to do the job, if it could be displayed when editing a curve?

Est-ce que cette vue (afficher retards & appuis) n'est pas suffisamment proche du "piano roll" pour faire l'affaire, si elle pouvait être affichée lorsqu'on édite une courbe?
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Olivier Guillion
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #9 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:48pm »
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Je pense mais je peux me tromper, que Marce aimerait pouvoir éditer plus finement les courbes dans Harmony afin de mieux caller les variations au début, à la fin ou partout où il le désir sur les notes.
C'est vrai qu'aujourd'hui cela se fait un peu au jugé... Il n'y a aucun repére...
Peut-être qu'une grille apparaissant lors de l'édition des courbes qui permettrait de mieux déssiner sur celles-ci en fonction d'une position fine de début ou de fin de note serait plus approprié aux utilisateurs d'Harmony ?  
 
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Olivier Guillion
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #10 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:49pm »
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OK, mais dans ce cas, cela n'a plus beaucoup de rapport avec la représentation en "piano roll"  
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Olivier Guillion
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Laurier
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #11 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 3:54pm »
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Ça me semble assez proche, mais un problème subsiste, comment illustrer les dièses et les bémols? Dans ce mode, on change de couleur pour l'indiquer une altération. Je maintiens ma position initiale, ce mode n'est qu'une façon de contourner la réalité à laquelle on devra faire face tôt ou tard. Mais c'est à Myriad de décider, la demande est forte pour cette option...
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #12 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 4:06pm »
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on Nov 11th, 2005, 3:49pm, Olivier Guillion wrote:
OK, mais dans ce cas, cela n'a plus beaucoup de rapport avec la représentation en "piano roll"  

 
Oui Olivier, je comprends bien mais la réponse que ma fait Marce me laisse penser que c'est cela qu'il désirerait en fait...  
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Olivier Guillion
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #13 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 4:11pm »
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on Nov 11th, 2005, 4:06pm, NICOU59 wrote:

 
Oui Olivier, je comprends bien mais la réponse que ma fait Marce me laisse penser que c'est cela qu'il désirerait en fait...  

 
OK. Alors:
 
 
Marce, if you think curve editing could be improved by displaying a marker at each note starting and ending point, you can propose this in the "Request" part of this forum. It will become a separate option.
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Olivier Guillion
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Re: Piano Roll  
« Reply #14 on: Nov 11th, 2005, 4:43pm »
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on Nov 11th, 2005, 3:42pm, Olivier Guillion wrote:

Isn't this view (display pressure & delay) close enough from piano roll to do the job, if it could be displayed when editing a curve?

Est-ce que cette vue (afficher retards & appuis) n'est pas suffisamment proche du "piano roll" pour faire l'affaire, si elle pouvait être affichée lorsqu'on édite une courbe?

 
Yes!
An optional overlay of colored bars to represent the time duration of notes and rests would work as a tutorial on musical notation every time that it is used.  No other music program has that!  Also if an editing line at the point of the cursor extends through the whole staff or even the whole score, a timing grid (as a new request) would be obviated for accurate placing of the points on the effects curve.  All that would be necessary for accurate placement of points on the effect curve would be to line up the vertical ruler line on the desired color bar (perhaps anywhere in the score) and place the point on the effects curve there.  The timed color bars could, themselves, be divided into subdivisions of beats for even greater accuracy of placement.
 
Done, two requests with one implementation resulting in a completely new type of music program.  This surely would increase the appeal to new users and increase the HA/MA market share.
 
Perhaps I will vote for this. . .
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