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Nov 13th, 2018, 4:47am 
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Tony Deff
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Note duration: notation   Quintuplets.png
« on: May 26th, 2018, 9:16am »
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I want to use the timing of bar 4: to most humans, this will sound identical to bar 3.
 
Which is easier for the performer to understand?
 
Bar 4 is graphically "cleaner" on the score, but is it confusing to the performer?  
 
Ideally, a 5:4 notation above a dotted quarter-note should have a time signature of  88
(which would rapidly fatigue a conductor's arm or a performer's foot!)
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JP
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #1 on: May 26th, 2018, 12:55pm »
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Well!
I'd say that most performers are confused when reading tuplets other than
  • "3" (meaning "3:2")
  • "6" (meaning "6:4")
  • "2" (meaning "2:3")
  • "5" (meaning "5:4")
  • "7" (meaning "7:8")
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Tony Deff
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #2 on: May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm »
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The whole tuplet notation can be confusing - did you notice my error with the triplet percentages (but were too kind to mention it)?
 
2:3  is the equivalent of dotted notes, n'est-ce pas?
 
So 6 does not mean 6:5, but is equivalent to 3:2 for n8 time?
 
Anything > 3 would be safest spelt out in full.
   
I challenge anyone to play 7 notes in the time of 8 !
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bubu42
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #3 on: May 26th, 2018, 1:24pm »
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As for "understood" tuplets, there's also the swing notation which HA can manage  easily...
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Tony Deff
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #4 on: May 26th, 2018, 2:07pm »
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If that is the same as Rubato, I did briefly look at  
Edit > Actions > Rubato
Scripts > Performance > Rubato
 
but that appears to be randomised.
 
It would help HA playback, but does it help writing a score ?
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bubu42
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #5 on: May 26th, 2018, 4:05pm »
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on May 26th, 2018, 2:07pm, Tony Deff wrote:
If that is the same as Rubato, I did briefly look at  
Edit > Actions > Rubato
Scripts > Performance > Rubato
 
but that appears to be randomised.

Basically, it is the same sort of process, but it isn't randomised. You choose the way notes are going to be interpreted (e.g. two 8th notes can be played as a quarter+8th in a 3:2 tuplet, or a dotted 8th+16th) The parameters can be chosen. Moreover, HA will change the durations in a clever way : only the groups of two 8ths will be changed, knowing that the first one (on beat) will be longer and the second one (off beat) will be shorter. Quote:

It would help HA playback, but does it help writing a score ?

It does help for jazz scores as the writing is simplified, but I don't think that would be suitable for Bach's works !  
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2018, 4:08pm by bubu42 » offline
JP
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #6 on: May 26th, 2018, 4:11pm »
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on May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm, Tony Deff wrote:
The whole tuplet notation can be confusing - did you notice my error with the triplet percentages (but were too kind to mention it)?
In fact I've never seen "full tuplet notation" in "real scores",  I mean the ones you can buy in music stores
on May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm, Tony Deff wrote:
2:3  is the equivalent of dotted notes, n'est-ce pas?
Mathematically, you're right, but in fact it's used in 3/8 or 6/8 where a beat represents 3 quavers. If you want to write 2 quavers in a beat you better use a "2" on 2 quavers rather than 2 dotted quavers, at least it's what you find in printed scores most of the time.
 
on May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm, Tony Deff wrote:
So 6 does not mean 6:5, but is equivalent to 3:2 for n8 time?
Again, mathematically speaking you're right, but if you have 6 beamed quavers in the time of a minim you better write "6" than two "3"
 
on May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm, Tony Deff wrote:
Anything > 3 would be safest spelt out in full.
As said above, I've never seen "full notation" in any commercial score
 
on May 26th, 2018, 1:09pm, Tony Deff wrote:
I challenge anyone to play 7 notes in the time of 8 !

It's just a way of indicating a rubato.
 
By the way, One of my teachers was a professional accompanist at the Opera in Paris. She had occasinally to accompany an old famous tenor who worked with Claude Debussy when he was young. He told her that Debussy considered triplets as a form of rubato, and that we should not play quaver triplets as exactly 3 third of a crochet.
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Re: Note duration: notation  
« Reply #7 on: May 26th, 2018, 4:20pm »
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on May 26th, 2018, 4:05pm, bubu42 wrote:
It does help for jazz scores as the writing is simplified, but I don't think that would be suitable for Bach's works !  

listen https://youtu.be/659PBM3Xq2A
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