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May 27th, 2018, 7:38am 
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   "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported
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2hu4u
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"Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   play_it_smooth.ogg
« on: Mar 27th, 2016, 3:46am »
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In Harmony Assistant, when I write a phrase containing a "Play it smooth"-type slur between notes and export it as a MIDI file, the resulting pitch bend when I play it back in Synthesia/WMP etc is very different from what I entered into Harmony Assistant, and what Harmony assistant plays back. So far the error seems to be completely random with no pattern. Also, occasionally it exports it correctly with no bug.
 
Attached is a recording of this problem;
the first phrase you hear is how Harmony Assistant plays it back, and the second phrase is how Synthesia, Windows Media Player, GXSCC etc plays it back. As you can clearly hear, the two are not even remotely similar.
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Andre_B
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported  
« Reply #1 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 9:05am »
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Sorry, I hear no clear difference. The second part has a lower volume (but that should not be the problem) and perhaps be an octave lower (same).  
 
I could only listen to it with VLC, not with Windows Media Player which does not recognize .ogg.  
 
Would you mind attaching the HA source (.myr), a .mid export and an .mp3 ?  
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André Baeck, belge vivant dans le Gard
2hu4u
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   Play_it_smooth_bug.zip
« Reply #2 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 9:33am »
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Thanks for the reply. As I said, the error is completely random, so when I exported it as a MIDI just now, it has changed a little bit but the error is still there. Sorry about the .ogg, I was too lazy to install the LAME encoder for Audacity but I have it now.
Attached are the files you requested in a zip folder.
If you want I could provide more examples, as this has occurred in nearly every MIDI I have made that uses the Play It Smooth function.
Thanks again
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Andre_B
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported  
« Reply #3 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 5:32pm »
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I had an eye (or rather an ear) on this.  
 
It could be good if you could describe accurately the symptom.  
 
I'm unable to distinguish pitches for too short sounds, let alone the detail of these glissando's (which are uncommon with just slurs).  
But I can distinguish the long high-pitch sound till the last glissando-down, indicated as a D in the score. When I create a MIDI myself, I get repeatedly an E (I think). The mp3 sample you provide gives an even higher pitch, while the .ogg in your first post has a much lower pitch.  
 
Is that really (one of) the symptom of your issue?  
 
which, being summed up,  ous is  
Just a guess: Midi seems designed to work with half-steps (12ths of an octave); working with much smaller steps (to simulate continuity) actually requires some rounding  which, when summed up, may generate significant distorsions.  
 
One idea to help analyzing, is to break the tie after the half-note E in the 2d measure.  I'm not sure I'm able to do that, but I'll try.    
  
« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2016, 5:35pm by Andre_B » offline

André Baeck, belge vivant dans le Gard
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   slurs_produce_pitch_bending.jpg
« Reply #4 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 11:03pm »
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On my midi system ( soundfont) the change in pitch from HA is obvious.  
I exported the file to midi you can see the result in the attachment.
The  midi plays only one note and uses pitch bend to ( attempt!) to follow the HA notes. You can see pitch bend commands along the bottom of the  piano  roll staff.  
I presume the translation to pitch bend from HA note is incorrect.
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   no_slurs.jpg
« Reply #5 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 11:17pm »
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If you remove the slurs  ( or ties with cntrl  L ) the midi file plays the correct individual notes... as attachement.  But alas, without the movement between notes.
 
Don't know what you could  do about it.  
 It would be painfully slow  to hand modify the pitch bending I think .
 
I suppose if you have a sequencer that can display a list of the midi events you could  use a calculation to reduce the pitch bend to the right amount.
eg the highest value I see in my list of bends in the file is 4297. Maybe once you worked out what it should be to create the high D from the original F you could use the  er... divisor to act on all the other bends??
 
Or would it be alright just to use HA digital sound for that staff?
 
Muddle.
 
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muddle
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   play_it_smooth_modified_for_midi.mid
« Reply #6 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 12:40am »
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good grief and aaugh!!  
 
I discover that my simple sequencer can select the pitch bend items and modify them by a %.
Tried various. A 72% causes the last note to be correct, but  the whole thing is going to take more work than that. See the attached midi file for failure!  
 Need an expert to look at this.
 
Good luck, Muddle.
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2hu4u
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported  
« Reply #7 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 1:14am »
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Thank you all for the help - it is a perplexing problem! That was a good try, muddle. I think for now I'll just export the glitchy staff separately as a wav using HA's correct rendition. One of my other MIDIs that had this problem spontaneously corrected itself in the past so one can only hope. Thanks again
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported   play_it_smooth_c.mid
« Reply #8 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 6:37am »
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well, for what it's worth it is possible to alter the bend values manually and get it  close to the HA version ( see attachment.)
My impression was that the bend values were plainly wrong,at least for a creative sound card and soundfont. It's possible that that bend values can be customized differently on other systems?   This last version does, however, also  work correctly on my korg keyboard.  
I think its time to give up!  
cheers.
 
David L.
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Tabby
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Re: "Play it smooth" Slur - Bug when exported  
« Reply #9 on: Feb 9th, 2018, 10:59am »
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did you try OnlineSequencer.net?
Step 1: Click “Import MIDI” button on the top menu to load your MIDI file into the online MIDI player.
Step 2: After choosing MIDI file and then click “continue” to enter a new interface. Next, choose different instruments for tracks.
Step 3: Click “Previewing/Import” and then you will see the detailed MIDI data.
Step 4: Click the yellow button to start to play MIDI file.
I copied these words from http://www.videoconverterfactory.com/tips/midi-player.html hope you do not mind, you can try this way
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