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   How to beam these Tuplets?
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   Author  Topic: How to beam these Tuplets?  (Read 2125 times)
Tony Deff
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How to beam these Tuplets?   triplet_trouble.myr
« on: Sep 8th, 2010, 10:14pm »
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In the attached example, I wish to beam the triplets on beats 3 - 4 and on 5 - 6.  
"Edit time signature" shows what I believe to be the appropriate settings.
Permitting all beams gives a very peculiar result.  
Any ideas?

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Re: How to beam these Tuplets?  
« Reply #1 on: Sep 9th, 2010, 11:55am »
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I think this is due to the stems direction. The beam does show up when the D and G are stems down, the Eb and C are stems up (which, to my mind looks better).
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Re: How to beam these Tuplets?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 12th, 2010, 12:29am »
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Yes, those tuplets in HA, they're a bit of pain in the back passage.  
During the finalisation of a recent score to prepare it for print I encountered enormous difficulties with triplets and other antimetrics up to the point that I began wondering whether I should consider switching to another piece of software. I had to spend so much time and effort on it and with my eyes being as bad as they are there were moments I had to lie down on the couch for some rest. NO JOKE! I even said to myself "If you need software to ruin you eyes with, HA is your pick."
So, naturally I was immediately interested in your problem.  
And here is the solution: it can't be solved.
Attached is  a ZIP with your file, with the tuplets in good order. More or less.  
I duplicated your staff twice to show the various results of my intervention.
On the top staff the triplets appear above the system (which is the convention in contemporary music), on the middle one I arranged them with a slant matching the notes they adhere to.  
First of all: the direction of the stems is, as the first replicant to your post already suggested, important. If you beam a group of notes the stems must be in the same direction. For the triplet bracket to appear over a group of 1/4 notes you need to beam them. And in this case, according to the conventions of notation all the stems should be UP.
Secondly: HA has great difficulty in handling tuplets over stems with more than 1 note and especially in case of a triplet composed of two note groups, in this case a 1/2 plus 1/4. For each note a separate triplet is created, in the background that is, only one is actually displayed. The problem becomes apparent when you want to manipulate the triplet bracket. When you hover your cursor over the notes the various triplet anchors appear (the black squares on the left and right) but you can't grab them as with a single note tuplet.  
As I can't get graphics to appear in any of my posts to this  forum, I added two screen shots displaying this situation to the ZIP, tuplet-anchor,01.jpg and tuplet-anchor,02.jpg.
The tuplet anchors belong to the first group of the second tuplet C+Eb).
Notice how in the second pic, putting my cursor on the top C, the left tuplet anchor appears in a completely different area than where the notes themselves are. I have no idea why this happens but it does and it is irritating. To cut a long story short: you definitely can't manipulate this tuplet on screen. To get the tuplet the way I did is by using the tuplet editor. You can access it by double clicking the anchor notes of the note groups. The first note group is composed of two notes, a D and a G. In the hierarchy of the tuplet combination the D is the anchor note of the first tuplet group. When you double click it, select the 'tuplet' button on the bottom right, it opens the tuplet editor. By inputing the correct or desired value in the fields for horizontal (which should remain 0) and vertical offset you can move the tuplet bracket up or down. The same has to be done with the second tuplet group composed of a D and a B-flat. The anchor note here is the upper D. Double click it and open the tuplet editor. I have inputed a value of -2. Changing the tuplet values of the other, non-anchor notes, has no impact at all.
Lastly, on the bottom staff I use a trick to have the note groups with stems up AND down. Here the tuplet is made invisible (select 'Don't display tuplet' in the tuplet editing box) and mere graphics act as the tuplets.  
But I doubt this is something that we want to spend the rest of our lives doing.
To show you how much fun you can have with tuplets, the ZIP also contains a pic of the finale of my orchestra piece 'The rise of the Dutch Republic'. If asked "How did you do that?" my answer would be "With difficulty, my friend, with great difficulty."
Anyone for tuplets?
Good luck with it!  
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2010, 12:38am by carminum » offline

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