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Esme
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #30 on: Jun 25th, 2002, 3:25am »
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I have been intending to contribute to this thread all week, but every time I write something somebody else gets in first and says what I was going to say - so despite the repetition, I'll say this anyway:
 
I agree with Laurier and Didier and Olivier and now COMALite. What I want from the Gold Sound-base are sounds which are clean and simple and authentic. I can add my own vibrato and other effects just as a musician would on a real instrument. I would not buy a guitar that had a built-in vibrato and in the same way I do not want Gold Sound-base samples that impose such things on me. Following COMALite's culinary analogy I would say that I want the Gold Sound-base to consist of the raw ingredients from which I can cook whatever I want, rather than it consisting of food that is already cooked for me. This would give me full choice and control.
 
An example of the problems of a 'realistic' sample is the Cello in the Super-Extended Sound-base. It has a lovely sound and is excellent for slow, lyrical, legato passages, but it is hopeless for playing fast, accented passages. Also, because it has some vibrato built into the sample, it sounds awful when playing above about G4 because the sample speeds up, so the vibrato becomes increasingly frantic and the harmonics begin to dominate and spoil the sound.
 
The sounds need to be clean but they also need to be skillfully turned into 'soundfonts' in such a way that a sequence of notes sounds like it is being played on a real instrument rather than on a low-price synthesiser. (I have had my own experience of how hard it is to turn a perfectly good sample into an effective soundfont).
 
It would be good if the Gold Sound-base also gave us at least a choice of 2 versions of some of the instruments (I am thinking here of the 'orchestral' instruments where the performer can directly influence the way that the notes are attacked). I would like one sample with a soft attack and another with a harder attack. For instance sometimes I find that the attack in the Super-Extended Sound-base piano sample is too percussive for a particular piece of music that I am writing. So I have had to develop the trick of applying a crescendo effect to every note (with the volume going from 0% to 100% in 5 hundredths of a second). This has the effect of cutting the percussive attack off the beginning of each note. It is certainly not an ideal solution and it would be much better if there was a soft and a hard attack sample available - Laurier's two guitar samples are a good example of how useful that could be.
 
I don't expect the samples to sound 'human'. They will require some skill from the Harmony/Melody user to adapt the sound. This will not be a conventional midi sound-base composed of 'finished' instruments and so I will not be able to download a midi from the internet and expect it to sound perfect. This is because the Gold Sound-base will provide the raw materials for music rather than some sort of standardised, finished sound. The advantage of this, as COMALite has said, is that the sound-base will be much more flexible in it's use. It will provide the real sound of each instrument but will require the skill of the Harmony/Melody user to turn that sound into what Erling refers to as a 'realistic' sound.
 
I love the sound of the Gibson and would love the chance to play with the sample and see what can be made of it. I also love the velvety bass notes of the folk guitar sample. The new flute sample sounds as if it will be much more useful than the SE version -  (the SE version is too sweet and, like the cello sample, only shows one aspect of the instrument's character). I could go on about the other samples but my remarks would be complimentary and repetitious.
 
Finally I want the samples to be capable playing fast passages and to cover the full range of each instrument. All of my music over the last year has been shaped by how fast the Super Extended Sound-base instruments can play (e.g. no fast passages for the cello), or how high an instrument can play and still sound good (e.g. notes above G4 sound awful on the SE cello even though G4 is not a particularly high or difficult note to play on a real cello).
 
all the best,
Esmeralda Weatherwax.
 
p.s. It would be nice if some of us could download the raw samples and see who can make the best soundfont out of them.  
 
p.p.s. Would the individual who calls himself "Antihumano" please stop bombarding my email address with spam, porno and weird emails. It started the day after the Myriad competition results were announced and it's beginning to make me feel homicidal...  
(The email address is one that I have only used on the Myriad website and nowhere else).
« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2002, 4:21am by Esme » offline
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #31 on: Jun 25th, 2002, 9:42am »
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Hi !
 
I've just posted 25 short sounds from songs that I want the Gold SB do the same result.
http://iubito.free.fr/goldWanted/
 
Je viens juste de poster 25 courts extraits de chansons avec des sons que j'adore et que j'aimerai bien que la Gold arrive au même résultat
L'adresse : http://iubito.free.fr/goldWanted/
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #32 on: Jun 25th, 2002, 9:35pm »
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I'm just a newbie on this board, but is there any date set when this "Gold Database" is due to launch? I'm very curious how all those new instruments will sound on my music.
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #33 on: Jun 26th, 2002, 7:03pm »
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Sorry, there is no release date at present. Please consider about 250 sounds must be recorded and adjusted to build a complete GM-compatible database.
 
Time will depend on the goodwill and motivation of the users themselves. The more sounds we receive, faster and easier is the job.


I just changed the demo file for electric guitar on the sample page. This one should  ease to figure out what can be done with this sound.
 
Follow the link :  
http://www.myriad-online.com/goldsb/samples.htm

 
 
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #34 on: Jun 27th, 2002, 11:00am »
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Now that was cool..I love Floyd.
 
As for the topic posted by erling:
I dont think it is possible to get the sound you "want" for a sample.
I know from playing my instrument (and since you all have been throwing numbers out, I have been playing professionally 16 yrs-19 total) that my attack, my vibrato and my tone change every time I pick up my instrument. Whether it be because of myself or the instrument changing. Also, the way I perform certain songs has alot to do with the way I play.
I wouldnt play a rock song the way I play a country song, and it's not just a matter of playing a different style, I make physical changes to meet the demand of what it is I am trying to accomplish.
 
I understand that you just want the best for the software, but frankly, there has to be a "happy medium" and to me that medium is making it as straight forward and clean as possible, much the way they are doing it now.
 
What you think is a good sound might not be a good sound in my ears and I need the ability to make those changes with effects should a song call for it. I understand you going to try and make a sample yourself, thats great, I hope it comes out good and it suits the requirements for the sample database. I, like you, only want the best sounding instruments for my music as well.
 
This is just my opinion and I dont want it to seem like I am coming down on you or just joining the bandwagon. If you want a certain sound, then you should just play it yourself live.
 
***Jules***
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #35 on: Jun 27th, 2002, 11:36am »
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Well.. To wrap it all up and give an answer to Julian, Esme Olivier and others :
 
I think I'm just a bit frustrated, that no software is good enough to really accomplish what I want. (So I Think I'll continue to play live for a while )
-I have now read all the posts that my original post started, And I have to agree to most of what's been said. It's true that the samples must be "clean"/"perfect". It's also true that a real person doesn't always play the same, And it's true that what sounds good to you, may not sound good to me. And last but not least I think (as many of you) that the GOLD project could be a huge leap forward in terms of sound quality. In fact I do not disagree to most of what you guys have been saying.  
 
Now that leaves me with the problem of explaining Why I'm still not Quite happy.
 
1) The samples DEMO page does not do real justice to the possibilities in the sounds. Maybe Olivier should always post 2 demoes of a sound. One with and one without manipulation. I think that's why I first thought the RAW Gibson sounded awful. ( It still does, but now you have convinced me why)
 
2) Maybe the next evolution in the product/s should be  development in the area of "human Play" options. How a more "human" approach could be achieved opens an entirely new discussion, which offcourse should be held in the "democratic Workshop".  
 
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #36 on: Jun 27th, 2002, 4:22pm »
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Dear Earl,
 
If you don't like what is being done, what don't you try and record an instrument of yours. I'm sure we would be delighted to have new instruments and the debate would be more practical...
 
There are already 2 samples: one with the candidate sound for the Gold version and another with the super-extended soundbase.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2002, 4:26pm by Yannick MARCHEGAY » offline

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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #37 on: Jun 28th, 2002, 8:16am »
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Hi Yannick !
 
You seem to either have misunderstood this thread and/or my objections. I LIKE what's being done ! I just didn't like the RAW Gibson  
 
Anyway: when I get my new Neumann Microphone I'll try to make a sample or two. !
 
By the way...have any of you a chance to record a Tinwhistle ?
-I'd really love that.  
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #38 on: Jun 28th, 2002, 11:23am »
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on Jun 28th, 2002, 8:16am, Erling wrote:
Hi Yannick !
 
You seem to either have misunderstood this thread and/or my objections. I LIKE what's being done ! I just didn't like the RAW Gibson

 
Oups, sorry  
 
Quote:
By the way...have any of you a chance to record a Tinwhistle ?
-I'd really love that.  

 
I recorded one yesterday, let's see how it's like...
« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2002, 11:24am by Yannick MARCHEGAY » offline

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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #39 on: Jun 28th, 2002, 1:13pm »
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Three new sounds on the Gold Sound Database demo page, built from the recordings by Yannick Marchegay :
 
- Dulzaina (traditional aragonese oboe)
 
- Alto Sax
 
- Tin Whistle
 
Some other instruments should follow quickly.
 
http://www.myriad-online.com/goldsb/samples.htm
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #40 on: Jun 30th, 2002, 12:33pm »
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As promised, new sounds have been added to the demo page :
http://www.myriad-online.com/goldsb/samples.htm

 
- Diatonic accordion and violin, from Yannick Marchegay
 
- Two "funk" slap basses, from Mark Strange
 
The whole page has been reorganized by topic in order to be viewed more easily.
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #41 on: Jul 1st, 2002, 9:21am »
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on Jun 21st, 2002, 3:45pm, Erling wrote:

To come up with a more "complete guitar" sound it might be needed to make at least 6 samples. (One for each string). When implemented , the software should then be able to recognize which sample to use based on a rule saying "Deepest possible string".

 
I'm sorry I write in French because I'm not able to write this in English
 
ça m'a fait penser à quelque chose : quand je joue de la guitare (nylon) en accompagnement, il faudrait plusieurs "sons" pour une même guitare. En mélodie classique, la guitare de Laurier est géniale.
Mais en accompagnement, je fais la séquence suivante par ex (accords en La mineur): je sais pas si c'est la méthode "officielle" pour jouer de la gratte mais j'y fait comme ça et c'est beau
1. Avec le pouce : corde du La, la main descend, son assez doux mais s'entend bien.
2. Avec le majeur : notes Mi-Do-La pas très fort, en remontant (sur les cordes Mi, Si et Sol) : le son est doux et pas très marqué...
3. Avec le dessus de l'ongle de quelques doigts (majeur, index, annulaire) : les notes Mi-La-Do-Mi, la main descend, le son est fort et bien différent des autres (dû aux ongles)...
Souvent j'arrête le son avec la paume de la main (notes très courtes).
4. idem que le 2.
 
(OK, c'est plus facile à faire qu'à expliquer mais si vous voulez écouter, j'ai fait un p'tit enregistrement http://iubito.free.fr/GuitarRythm.mu3)
 
comme les sons sont *bien* différents, est-il nécessaire d'enregistrer les notes de plusieurs manière :
- un enregistrement joué avec le pouce (en descendant),
- un autre plus doux avec le majeur (en montant),
- et enfin un autre avec les ongles (en descendant).
(Il est vrai que j'utilise pas de médiator).
 
Et s'il est utile de faire de tels enregistrements, une "guitare virtuel" (comme l'orgue virtuel en préparation), permettrait de dire quelles notes sont jouées en montant ou en descendant...
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2002, 10:28pm by Sylvain Machefert » offline

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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #42 on: Jul 1st, 2002, 11:22am »
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A mon humble avis, la réponse à toutes tes questions, Sylvain, est "oui".
Par exemple, quand on a enregistré le violon, on l'a enregistré de trois manières :
- cordes lentes (sans attaque réelle, début avec l'archet sur les cordes),
- violon (attaque de l'archet sur les cordes),
- pizzicatto.
 
Plus il y aura de jeux différents enregistrés, plus la base de sons paraîtra réelle.
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #43 on: Jul 1st, 2002, 4:48pm »
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Again, two new  sounds have been added to the demo page :  
 
http://www.myriad-online.com/goldsb/samples.htm

 
 
- Pan flute, from Yannick Marchegay  
 
- Oboe, played by Françoise X. and recorded by Yannick Marchegay through a portable minidisk recorded  
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Re: Candidate sounds for Gold Database - Demo page  
« Reply #44 on: Jul 1st, 2002, 4:54pm »
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j'adore le hautbois
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