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JP
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Validation de la prononciation  
« on: Jan 15th, 2018, 11:30am »
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J'ai besoin de l'aide des utilisateurs anglophones du forum pour valider et éventuellement corriger la prononciation des pièces suivantes de "From the Bavarian Highlands" d'Edward Elgar :

Pour ceux que ça choquerait, les portées de piano ne sont pas destinées à être affichées dans les fichier MYRWEB résultants, qui servent de "fichiers d'apprentissage" aux membre de l'ensemble vocal, le travail se faisant sur l'édition papier de Stainer & Bell
Merci pour le temps que vous voudrez bien y consacrer
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-1.mus
« Reply #1 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 3:30am »
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Here is the first score back.  I saved it as .MUS to avoid confusion.
 
The main pronunciation fixes were to a-gain[#geIn] and -ly[#li].
 
I also made the following corrections:
S and A in measures 80 and 164--rhythm was wrong.
Ditto for A in measure 156.
T was missing a hyphen in measure 48.
I added a second slur to the T in measures 183-84.
The B lyrics in 79-80 and 94-85 had gotten mis-aligned with the notes, now fixed.
Added spaces to prolong the final B notes in measures 185-88.
 
Questions:
Shouldn't there be a slur in S in measure 46?
Shouldn't rehearsal mark I be in measure 170, not the measure before?
 
 
More to follow as I have time.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-2.mus
« Reply #2 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 4:17am »
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Here is the second score.
 
Firstly, I altered "binding" in measure 12 to "bidding," which I believe is the intended word.
 
I added hyphens to A, T, & B in measures 81 & 82.
 
I deleted the slur in the T in measure 52 and added slurs where needed in measures 60, 62, and 64.
 
Query:  In the T in measures 68-71, is that octave jump correct?  The other parts hold the same note.
 
The pronunciation corrections:  re[#ri]-joice, cru[#krU]-el[#@l], and the[#Di] before "earth."
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-3.mus
« Reply #3 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 4:34am »
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The only pronunciation correction in this one is o’er[#O@].
 
I made the following other corrections:
 
Added staccato in A in measure 40 to match the other voices.
 
Added a slur in S in measures 46-47.
 
Added slurs in T & B in measure 92.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-4.mus
« Reply #4 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 4:57am »
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The pronunciation of pro[#pr@U]-tecting is all that needed corrcecting.
 
Please double-check the fit of words to notes in T & B in measures 7-9 and 26-27.  They don't look right.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-5.mus
« Reply #5 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 5:47am »
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A number of things were off, including the initial word "A" of a couple of sentences (VS made the vowel long, so I made it short).  There were a couple of other, similar corrections to pronunciation.
 
As for the word "Johé," I am not certain of the pronunciation.  If I were the conductor, I would make it Jo[#Z@U]-hé[#eI], as if it were French, but perhaps it is a German dialect word, in which case it might be something like Jo[#j@U]-/hé[#eI].
 
Please check the rhythm of measure 121.  A couple of the eight notes are sounding as sixteenths on my computer.  They may be fine on yours; I am experiencing odd, random problems.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-5a.mus
« Reply #6 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 5:53am »
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Use this version of the file.  I fixed a small error in the T2 in measure 120.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #7 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 6:09am »
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Number 6 will have to wait for tomorrow, but I do have some thoughts:
 
First, you should make the staccato marks visual only--shortening the pressure time is making it very hard to tell what the pronunciation of each word is.
 
Second, you should slow the tempo down, so that the choristers can grasp the words.  Once they know the words and the notes, the conductor can work on getting them up to speed and making them staccato.
 
Lastly, please consider having two staves for each part.  The doubling is sounding strange in spots, at least on my computer and is making it hard to hear how the lyrics are being pronounced.
 
I listened about half the way through at half-tempo, and don't have time for the rest, sorry.  It's midnight here, and I have to be up in the morning.  I will try to get to this piece as soon as possible tomorrow, unless someone else wants to tackle it.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #8 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 9:17am »
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Thanks a lot Paul!
I had to make these files from MIDI files I found on the web, which means that the voices were replaced  by musical instruments, some of them being "transposing instruments" such as clarinet or French horn, and also that I had to add the lyrics manually. A real nightmare! No wonder that there were so many errors in these files.  
I will report your changes in my Myrweb files.  
« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2018, 9:18am by JP » offline
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #9 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 2:22pm »
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You've done an amazing amount of work on these files.  They look good.  Please don't consider it a criticism that I found a few minor errors--I'm still correcting details in scores my choir has been using for nearly a decade!
 
I'll be taking a look at Number 6 now, and will report back in a while.
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #10 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 3:29pm »
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on Jan 17th, 2018, 2:22pm, PaulL wrote:
You've done an amazing amount of work on these files.  They look good.  Please don't consider it a criticism that I found a few minor errors--I'm still correcting details in scores my choir has been using for nearly a decade!
 
I'll be taking a look at Number 6 now, and will report back in a while.

Being myself a (retired) software developer, I know that "bugs are the rule" and "the absence of bugs is supect". So by no way I would consider that finding errors in my work is a criticism, it's just a usefull help I welcome in improving the results of my work.
Thanks again!
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #11 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 4:30pm »
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on Jan 17th, 2018, 4:17am, PaulL wrote:

Query:  In the T in measures 68-71, is that octave jump correct?  The other parts hold the same note.

It's what the printed score says.
Considering the piano part, it does make sense.
« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2018, 4:49pm by JP » offline
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Re: Validation de la prononciation   Bavarian-6.mus
« Reply #12 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 5:35pm »
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Okay, JP, here is the last score.
 
After slowing things down and eliminating the staccatos, I was able to get a good listen to the lyrics.  I then went back to your initial file and inserted the following fixes to the pronunciation
 
Huzza!  =>  Huz[#hVz]-za!
 
vale  =>  vale[#veIl]  (you had [#vEl], which isn't quite right)
 
Initial "A" in two sentences  =>  A[#@] (measures 348 and 402)
 
Initial "We" in one sentence  =>  We[#wi] (measure 364)
 
(Apparently, capitalizing those two words changes the pronunciation?)
 
N.B.:  in all parts in measure 80, I changed "-in" to "-ing".
 
Suggestion:  verify with your source whether you should have "moun-tain side" or "moun-tain-side".  (It's generally one word in English, not two, but Mrs. Elgar may have been going for an archaism.  If it's supposed to be two words, note that you have "moun-tain-side" the first time.)
 
P.S.--I hope this helps.  Boy, what a project you took on!
« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2018, 5:37pm by PaulL » offline

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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #13 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 7:37pm »
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Yes, it DOES help me a lot!
The myth in our choir is that everyone can read scores easily, but it’s obviously not the case.  
Some very good people left us last year because they felt we wasted too much time reading the scores rather than making music.  
MIDI files are a very bad tool to help people reading the score, so the solution is Myrweb.  
I thus decided to make Myrweb files for the ones who need help.
I’m not sure if it is really helpful... Let’s wait and see...
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Re: Validation de la prononciation  
« Reply #14 on: Jan 17th, 2018, 8:01pm »
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J.P : Are you pasting-in text?  If so, delete any apostrophes and simply re-type them directly.
 
on Jan 17th, 2018, 5:35pm, PaulL wrote:
After slowing things down and eliminating the staccatos, I was able to get a good listen to the lyrics.

Well done, Paul.
I must admit they were too fast, too high-pitched and too hissy for me to know what most words were to comment on the pronounciation!  
 
on Jan 17th, 2018, 4:57am, PaulL wrote:
... is all that needed corrcecting.

Are you sure that's all that needs correcting?  
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