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   Pronunciation of 'patient' in english
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eduardo
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Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« on: May 2nd, 2015, 5:04pm »
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I have tried several ways to write 'patient' in english but the results were not satisfactory at all. Can anyone help me?
 
Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2015, 6:26pm by eduardo » offline
Andre_B
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is what IRe: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #1 on: May 2nd, 2015, 5:53pm »
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I had a look at that, here is what I understand:  
 
If you select US English, the SAMPA translation is [#peISVnt], it has 2 syllables, and it sound quite good (except for the accentuated syllable, but wit music it's anyway different).  
I would perhaps have written it [#peIS@nt] but that's a matter of taste and I don't really hear the difference.  
 
With UK English, however, it's more difficult. The translation is [#peISnt] which has only one syllable. I may believe that this is quite correct in plain spoken English, but "Continental English" will generally prefer it with two syllables.  
 
One or two syllables, it depends on the number of notes, and on an eventual slur  (same with several sounds in Italian).  
 
With two different notes for pa-tient , in UK English VS will sing "pa" over the two notes, and finish the second one with the remaining consonants. I don't know in Englishmen are satisfied with that, but I'm not.  
 
Removing the dash between the two syllables is not satisfactory either; the easiest is to force pa-tient[#SVnt] or, if you don't want SAMPA, pa[pay]-tient[shunt]
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eduardo
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #2 on: May 2nd, 2015, 6:25pm »
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Thank you, Andre, I tried the US english SAMPA and it sounds very well.
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2015, 6:26pm by eduardo » offline
Bampah
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #3 on: May 2nd, 2015, 11:46pm »
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Pat[pay]-ient[shent] works OK
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #4 on: May 3rd, 2015, 10:05pm »
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As a native UK English speaker, I can assure you that patient is never pronounced as a single syllable. What the transcription peISnt means is that the second syllable may be pronounced with no audible vowel: instead, the n takes the place of a vowel. This 'syllabic n' woud be indicated in a more explicit transcription by a vertical line under the consonant.  
 
This kind of pronunciation would not normally be used in singing anyway: a singer would restore some sort of vowel to the syllable, either a schwa or an idealized 'e' to rhyme with sent. The latter is a pronunciation that you would never hear in speech, but is quite possible in singing, especially of a more serious kind.  
 
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #5 on: May 4th, 2015, 5:11pm »
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Thank you both Bampah and Steve.  I've got a reasonably good pronunciation with the André solution: it renders two syllables and it sounds quite good.
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #6 on: May 4th, 2015, 6:17pm »
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on May 3rd, 2015, 10:05pm, SDoerr wrote:
As a native UK English speaker, I can assure you that patient is never pronounced as a single syllable. What the transcription peISnt means is that the second syllable may be pronounced with no audible vowel: instead, the n takes the place of a vowel. This 'syllabic n' woud be indicated in a more explicit transcription by a vertical line under the consonant.  

 
Thanks, Steve, this clarifies it. I do agree, and if my explanation seemed perhaps different, it is due to the difficulty to explain. I didn't formalize the concept of "syllabic n" - which I'm afraid SAMPA and IPA do ignore.  
 
The issue is that, with that SAMPA translation, Virtual Singer handles it as a single-syllable word.  
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #7 on: May 25th, 2015, 12:58am »
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To get at accurate American English pronunciation,  I'm translating the cmudict.0.7.raw for my projects. The output for this word looks like this for American English/Sampa combined.
 
English and Sampa combined CMU dictionary
pa[#peI]-tience[#SVns]  P EY1 - SH AH0 N S -  
pa[#peI]-tient[#SVnt]     P EY1 - SH AH0 N T -  
pa[#peI]-tient[#SVnt]-ly[#li] P EY1 - SH AH0 N T - L IY0 -  
pa[#peI]-tients[#SVnts]  P EY1 - SH AH0 N T S -  
pa[#peI]-tients'[#SVnts]  P EY1 - SH AH0 N T S -  
pa[#peI]-tient's[#SVnts]  P EY1 - SH AH0 N T S -
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #8 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 10:58pm »
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Thank you, Ron.
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Re: Pronunciation of 'patient' in english  
« Reply #9 on: Oct 7th, 2015, 12:26pm »
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excellent Andre_B for your perfect explanation
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2015, 12:28pm by sarwanov » offline
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