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Topic: Adjust Pitch for each voice? (Read 880 times) |
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David09
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Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« on: Jul 8th, 2012, 7:22pm » |
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I have a choir singing No! many times. Sometimes it is a chord , sometimes a 4 octave unisono, but it is always out of tune, I am not used to Equal Temperament so it might just be my love of properly tuned chords, I know I could use the choir detune settings to make it sound different,not detuning when in Equal Temp is painful to my ears. Are there other options to tune individual notes being sung by the choir?
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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David09
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 10th, 2012, 9:24am » |
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on Jul 9th, 2012, 7:21pm, SDoerr wrote:
Thanks Steve, unfortunately my Alternate Tunings folder contains nothing,could that be normal. I will post that as a Topic.
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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JP
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #3 on: Jul 10th, 2012, 10:16am » |
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on Jul 10th, 2012, 9:24am, David09 wrote:
Thanks Steve, unfortunately my Alternate Tunings folder contains nothing,could that be normal. I will post that as a Topic.
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YOUR "Alternate tunings" folder (i.e. the one in "Myriad documents/Settings") is empty, but there should be another one in "Program files/Harmony Assistant" with some demos in it
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David09
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 8:54am » |
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on Jul 10th, 2012, 10:16am, JP wrote:
YOUR "Alternate tunings" folder (i.e. the one in "Myriad documents/Settings") is empty, but there should be another one in "Program files/Harmony Assistant" with some demos in it |
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Thanks JP.I see one mean tone tuning, I don't think anyone on the forum would know which one it is? I didn't open it so I don't know if it is a Demo or a sort of rule to be applied to staffs.
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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SDoerr
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 10:42am » |
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on Jul 10th, 2012, 9:24am, David09 wrote:
Thanks Steve, unfortunately my Alternate Tunings folder contains nothing,could that be normal. I will post that as a Topic.
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When I create a new document, I'm presented with a dialogue entitled 'Model selection' which, with the 'Alternate tunings' folder expanded, looks like this:
These seem to correspond to .myr files in my physical folder C:\Program Files (x86)\Harmony Assistant\Models\Alternate tunings. I don't know how you use these, or how you change the tuning of an existing piece of music.
Incidentally, you might get more information by asking on the main forum, as I think this feature is not specific to Virtual Singer.
Edit: oh, I see you did!
--
Steve
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 10:44am by SDoerr » |
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Steve Doerr
Gravesend, UK
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JP
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 11:03am » |
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on Jul 11th, 2012, 8:54am, David09 wrote:
Thanks JP.I see one mean tone tuning, I don't think anyone on the forum would know which one it is? I didn't open it so I don't know if it is a Demo or a sort of rule to be applied to staffs.
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".mus" or ".myr" files are demo files you can open with HA and play.
The "rules" files are suffixed ".lex" ("Lex" = "Rule" in Latin) and located in the main folder (Alternate tunings). They are used by HA when a score indicates that it uses these rules. These files can be edited only using HA, "Staff/Edit rules" command.
I tried to understand how it works from the "New Rigadoon (meantone)" file but I don't understand what telling that a C is a fundamental, a G a fifth etc. changes to the way the music is played.
Ask in the HA category rather than the VS category. There should be people able to tell you more on how to use these "rules" to produce the effect you want.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 11:05am by JP » |
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JP
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 1:13pm » |
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I tried again and I think I understand how it works.
For each rule, there is a "Special" effect to apply, which you can display with the "Special" button (near the bottom of the "Edit/Rules" window.
If you click on that button, you'll see that there is no effect to apply to a note where the "Fundamental" rule is applied; but "Fifth" means applying a microtonal effect of -3%, "Fourth" +3%, "Major second" = -7%, "Minor seventh" = +7%, etc.
The value of the microtonal effect can be edited using the "Edit effect" button on the bottom of the "Note options" window which opens when you click on the "Special" button explained above.
I hope this is clear  , at least clear enough for you to understand the principle and make a test.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 1:14pm by JP » |
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David09
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 1:19pm » |
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on Jul 11th, 2012, 11:03am, JP wrote:
".mus" or ".myr" files are demo files you can open with HA and play.
The "rules" files are suffixed ".lex" ("Lex" = "Rule" in Latin) and located in the main folder (Alternate tunings). They are used by HA when a score indicates that it uses these rules. These files can be edited only using HA, "Staff/Edit rules" command.
I tried to understand how it works from the "New Rigadoon (meantone)" file but I don't understand what telling that a C is a fundamental, a G a fifth etc. changes to the way the music is played.
Ask in the HA category rather than the VS category. There should be people able to tell you more on how to use these "rules" to produce the effect you want. |
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Thanks JP. I found the,myr files but not the.lex,where did you see them? Your comment about C or G can be explained. The mean tone tuning versions[there are almost a hundred] are initially for the Keyboard instruments since they generally didn't have enough keys for the number of notes in the tuning scale,I.E.-g# in a mean tone tuning is not the same as a flat. the tuner must start somewhere, so they generally began with middle C, and worked out an entire octave and then copied that out over the whole organ/Harpsichord keyboard. Modern practice is to tune starting on A, because on 18th C woodwinds that oboe note is the most stable. In equal temp all intervals are equally false[except the octaves]and so g# in Equal temp. is the same as a flat. The tuning systems were very popular, those musicians had a love affair with pure thirds, we can hardly hear the difference today because we mostly have only heard Equal temp. Since I had to learn the old tuning systems to play in all those"authentic" instrument ensembles I can still be shocked by some things in Equal Temp. Having tuned the organ in mean tone meant that the steps of the scale had different sizes,in equal Temp. the scale steps are all boringly the same. A melody sung or played in a mean tone temp has variously sized steps which give it a stronger personality as it were. That's it for todays lesson.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 1:45pm by David09 » |
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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JP
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #9 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 1:47pm » |
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Thanks, David for the explanation. My trouble was that I couldn't see how to give the exact pitch of each note.
In fact it seems to be done in two steps
1 - Define a rule for each interval (from the fundamental), as said above, a Fifth is 3% of a semitone below Equal temp., a Forth 3% above and so on.
2 - Then I you have to instruct HA that all Gs have to apply the "Fifth" rule, all Fs the "Forth" rule and so on. I suppose that the tuning will differ if the tune is in G major or F minor, but you know that better than I do.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 2:11pm by JP » |
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David09
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Re: Adjust Pitch for each voice?
« Reply #10 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 6:41pm » |
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on Jul 11th, 2012, 1:47pm, JP wrote:Thanks, David for the explanation. My trouble was that I couldn't see how to give the exact pitch of each note.
In fact it seems to be done in two steps
1 - Define a rule for each interval (from the fundamental), as said above, a Fifth is 3% of a semitone below Equal temp., a Forth 3% above and so on.
2 - Then I you have to instruct HA that all Gs have to apply the "Fifth" rule, all Fs the "Forth" rule and so on. I suppose that the tuning will differ if the tune is in G major or F minor, but you know that better than I do. |
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JP, I can't thank you enough for the work you did on the misero giovane,it sounds fantastic. I have opened my attempt to enter the text under yours', both in scroll view and now I can see what I had done wrong. I am far from understanding the software but you have certainly gotten me much closer. The tuning as you describe it sounds very complicated, I am hoping I can find an easier way to do it. I have a conversion chart for changing Equal temperament to Rameau's mean tone. It is very simple if the software can do it this way, I will have to look at the possibilities.
Names: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A B flat B
Cents: 0 87 193 298 386 503 585 697 789 890 1007 1083
Names: C
cents: 1200, i don't mean you have to figure this out, I just was showing you that the whole scale can be changed instead of doing each interval, but this may not be possible in HA, I will post this n th HA section to see if ant one will help.
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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JP
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Please have a look at the table in the attached file (an Excel spreadsheet in a zip container)
I computed the values from the Rules expressed in the "New Rigadoon (meantone)" file. I added the Rameau values in the last column.
This is very straightforward.
I will give you a spreadsheet that will do the opposite, i.e. start form the "cents" and provide you with the values to put in a Rules file.
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JP
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That's it:
if you change the values in the first column, it will tell you what value you have to put in the corresponding rule.
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David09
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on Jul 11th, 2012, 7:30pm, JP wrote:That's it:
if you change the values in the first column, it will tell you what value you have to put in the corresponding rule. |
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You are too kind dear Sir. Thanks! I will have to study it a bit but it was obviously very good.
I must confess, I tried to reduce the amount of vibrato in the sopranos and I messed up your beautiful work,how did that happen?
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Albert Einstein: "Only two things are definite, the Universe, and Human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."
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Meantone.zip