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SDoerr
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Split syllable problem  exquisita.mus (attachment deleted)
« on: Jan 5th, 2006, 11:52pm » |
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Is this a bug? Bar 1 of the attached file shows how the word exquisita is set in one particular bar of the Bass part of Mozart's Solemn Vespers K339. The second note of the first syllable doesn't sound (for me, at any rate). I have to re-spell the word as in bar 2 in order to get it to sound correctly.
Any idea why the first version doesn't work?
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Steve Doerr
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Robert_A.
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #1 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 1:51am » |
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The first measure has "ex-_qui-si-ta."
Try "ex--qui-si-ta." Dash, rather than underscore.
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SDoerr
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #2 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 10:17am » |
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on Jan 6th, 2006, 1:51am, Robert_A. wrote:
That didn't seem to make any difference for me.
If I go into the fragment editor and type "ex-_qui-si-ta" and click Try, it sings it correctly (although I need a space after "-ta" for the final syllable to sound).
I've just discovered that it also sings it properly (with "ex-_qui-si-ta") in the score if I reduce the tempo.
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Steve Doerr
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Henri
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Re: Split syllable problem exquisita.myr (attachment deleted)
« Reply #3 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 12:32pm » |
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I think that Harmony have not enough time to pronounce correctly e then x at this tempo (x is too long).
So I suggest you to use hidden words, like in the attached file.
Regards
Henri
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SDoerr
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #4 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 12:56pm » |
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on Jan 6th, 2006, 12:32pm, Henri wrote:I think that Harmony have not enough time to pronounce correctly e then x at this tempo (x is too long).
So I suggest you to use hidden words, like in the attached file.
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Thank you. That is essentially the same as my solution, but improves the appearance.
So perhaps it comes down to the algorithm VS uses to determine how much time it will allocate to the vowel versus the consonant in a syllable: when there is only one note for the syllable, it finds the time for both, but when there are two notes at this speed it allocates more time to the consonants with the result that none of the time of the second note is available for the vowel. (And because the consonants are unvoiced, there is no pitch.) I wonder if there is room for improvement - some of the vowel should be allocated to each note in a split syllable.
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Steve Doerr
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Henri
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #5 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 1:46pm » |
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on Jan 6th, 2006, 12:56pm, SDoerr wrote:| Thank you. That is essentially the same as my solution, but improves the appearance. |
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Absolutely, your solution was right !
Quote:| So perhaps it comes down to the algorithm VS uses to determine how much time it will allocate to the vowel versus the consonant in a syllable: when there is only one note for the syllable, it finds the time for both, but when there are two notes at this speed it allocates more time to the consonants with the result that none of the time of the second note is available for the vowel. (And because the consonants are unvoiced, there is no pitch.) |
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I think you are right too. In the syllabe "ex", there are four fragments, and only the first of them concern the vowel. Even if it's the most important, in your particular exemple, it's not enough long.
Quote:| I wonder if there is room for improvement - some of the vowel should be allocated to each note in a split syllable. |
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Olivier & Didier do miracles. Wait & see.
Henri
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Robert_A.
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #6 on: Jan 6th, 2006, 1:58pm » |
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Ah, thanks to Henri, now I understand what you mean. You are unable to hear the two different pitches on "ex-."
But the pitches do play, if you change the tempo to a slower value (try it). So, it must be a matter of time allocation, as was noted.
I routinely use fragment notation (or, if you prefer, SAMPA) to phonetically spell things the way I want them to sound. What is needed is a way to duplicate the "e" vowel in the fragment notation (which is hidden), without displaying anything extra in the visible lyrics.
Alternatively, you can use fragment notation to move the "x" onto the beginning of the following syllable. That will leave a naked "e" for the first two notes. It will sing both notes. In fact, when I (live singer) try the word, I do move the "x" onto the "qui-" syllable (sounds like "ksqui"). But if this is played too quickly, it is hard to fit in all the sounds.
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Tom Duda
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #7 on: Jan 7th, 2006, 11:48pm » |
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Here is what I do in a similar situation: On the first pitch, I would write "ex" but in brackets I would say [e] so we would see "ex[e]". Follow that with a hyphen to the next pitch. In brackets write "[ex]". Then hyphen again to the next pitch.
On the score, all we see is "ex--". But for me both pitches are sung. The problem is that "x" should not be heard until the second pitch but VS/RS wants to sound all fragments on the first pitch.
Of course, when you use my suggestion, eliminate the quotes please.
Tom Duda
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Romans 3:23,24
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SDoerr
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Re: Split syllable problem
« Reply #8 on: Jan 8th, 2006, 12:27am » |
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Thanks, Tom.
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Steve Doerr
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