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Topic: Improvement in VS English - big time (Read 2060 times) |
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Robert_A.
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Improvement in VS English - big time
« on: Dec 16th, 2005, 4:02pm » |
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Now, Virtual Singer has a credible English Bass-Baritone voice.
Listen to "Foggy, Foggy Dew" on my demos page.
That voice is part VS, part RS. The consonants are RS, since they sound better. The vowels are VS. Vowels formants were individually adjusted, for English, and some overall adjustments applied. Although the voice sings in any language, the hand-tailored formants are only in English.
Here is the voice file. It is not as large as my other voices:
http://www.icogitate.com/~thusiam/temporary/BassBaritonePlus.zip
I also have a version that is strictly VS, without the RS consonants. It has the same sound quality as the above voice, but the consonants are rougher. Here is the voice file. It is very small:
UPDATE: I removed this file - better are now available.
That voice is entirely VS. I began with the default voice, then adjusted the English fragments individually, formant by formant, in comparison to my own voice. The modified voice was then adjusted for overall timbre, to give a more Bass sound. I also adjusted the volume curve and some other tweaks.
The improved voices are MUCH better than the default VS voice, or the VS "Bass." They can be used for English-language songs below the Tenor range, including mid-range songs that a normal male voice would sing.
The VS voice is also a good complement to Robert_A Tenor RS voice, in harmony, better than Robert_B.
Anyone can modify a VS voice. Try it. Once you get the concept, it is not hard.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2006, 12:41am by Robert_A. » |
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time  DeckTheHallsBassBaritone.myr (attachment deleted)
« Reply #1 on: Dec 19th, 2005, 11:56am » |
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So naturally I had to do a "taste test." It being the "Winter Break" "Holiday" Season I settled on this little non-dogmatic piece:
Deck the Halls
Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
See the blazing Yule before us,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Strike the harp and join the chorus.
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Follow me in merry measure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
While I tell of Yule tide treasure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Fast away the old year passes,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Hail the new, ye lads and lasses,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Sing we joyous, all together,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Heedless of the wind and weather,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Here are the myr files:
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/deckTheHallsMYR.zip
And the Mp3 renderings:
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/DeckTheHallsBassBaritone.mp3
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/DeckTheHallsBassBaritonePlus.mp3
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/DeckTheHallsStdVox.mp3
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| « Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2005, 12:33pm by James Warren » |
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #3 on: Dec 20th, 2005, 2:50am » |
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There you go. My own choir used "Elizabeth" (fake female RS voice) as Soprano. I prefer "her" to the VS Soprano, when part of a choir. I also used RobertA as Tenor, and BassBaritonePlus. The other two voices were VS Alto and Tenor.
JW: You may notice that the trumpet seems to come in late, on many notes. This is because a good quality trumpet (live or digital) takes a moment to get the note together. Thus, it has to start producing the note before the beat. You can control that by starting notes prematurely (double-click a note to see its properties). Right now, I'm doing that with adjusted forms of F.F.D., to emulate the effect of a live voice.
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #4 on: Dec 20th, 2005, 3:04am » |
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No I didn't notice that. I will check it out. Thanks for the tip!
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #5 on: Dec 20th, 2005, 3:12am » |
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Having sung in a choir with the trumpet next to me, I discern these things. 
When you see the note properties dialog box, look for the "delay" slider. Set it to a negative value, if you want the note to start before its nominal time. I'd try -32 as a wild guess, in this case.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2005, 3:15am by Robert_A. » |
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time I_Heard_The_Bells.myr (attachment deleted)
« Reply #6 on: Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:00am » |
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Here is another public domain song for your collection of voice material. I haven't been able to get the volume of your new voices right for this. Maybe you can do better. After reading of Longfellow's circumstances at the inception of this poem, I added a chorus for some variety between stanzas.
Longfellow's "Christmas Bells:"
Christmas Bells
I HEARD the bells on Christmas Day
Their old, familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
The words repeat
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!
And thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along
The unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!
Till ringing, singing on its way,
The world revolved from night to day,
A voice, a chime,
A chant sublime
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!
Then from each black, accursed mouth
The cannon thundered in the South,
And with the sound
The carols drowned
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!
It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn
The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!
And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said;
"For hate is strong,
And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"
Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
"God is not dead, nor doth He sleep;
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men."
Warren's chorus kludge:
Ding dong the bells.
Ding dong they say.
What does their ringing mean this day.
A childish jest or time to pray
while leaving fear to find the way
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/IHeardTheBells.mp3
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| « Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:07am by James Warren » |
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #7 on: Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:42am » |
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... I won't have time to look at the *.myr file, but generally regarding volume: I am in the habit of reducing global volume (all channels) to about 1/4 of max. That leaves more "headroom" for anything that should stand out. Many MIDI files (if you are importing from MIDI) have every channel at max.
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time IHeardTheBellsBassBaritonePlus.myr (attachment deleted)
« Reply #8 on: Dec 22nd, 2005, 10:15pm » |
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Ok, you are right, it is simply a matter of degree. Here the BassBaritonePlus voices are advanced a full 16 volume units over the standard voice. Thus the VS soprano voice can be mixed with your new RS voice with equal outputs.
I have also added a fourth voice to the mix. That's three BassBaritonePlus voices with the VS soprano.
http://webs.lanset.com/jow/IHeardTheBellsBassBaritonePlus.mp3
Please note the failed volume and panning curves (deactivated) in the music file. I am never satisfied with those. But while using the complete mixer to adjust the volumes for this file I had an idea. If the mixer could be used in step wise fashion like a compiler debugger the curves could be set from the complete mixer by mousing the voices about in a more intuitive way that allows for the specific changes to be considered in the context of the full score.
Edit:
I forgot to mention that the BassBaritone (the non-RS) voice works with the same 16 volume unit proportion.
So you can exchange the voices in the music file between the new RS and VS hybrid voices without changing the volume.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2005, 10:44pm by James Warren » |
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #9 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 12:40am » |
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Unless I miss my guess (just listening to the mp3), you have a male voice (octave -1) on the Bass clef, which sounds too low.
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #10 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 1:55am » |
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Actually it sounds too low to me too but that was the default when changing voices and I just left it. Does the VS program pick those defaults or is that set with the voice?
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #11 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 2:21am » |
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... yes, and yes. Each VS or RS voice can be set so that it sings the notes "as written," or with a built-in octave shift (one or more octaves, up or down).
The various built-in VS voices have females singing as-written, and males singing one ocatve down. This is normally correct if the voices read from the Treble clef, without 8vb. A lot of popular sheet music is written that way. The singer naturally makes the octave shift without being told.
When I first made an RS voice, long ago, I did not include an octave shift. I normally sing from the Bass clef, where an octave shift is not used. Unfortunately, some users applied it to the Treble clef, where it squeaked, with or without mouse ears.
When in doubt, do this: When the voice is placed, double-click the singer icon on the VS stage. Look to see if there is a 0 (female) or -1 (male) octave shift.
Most errors occur when a -1 male voice is applied to a Bass clef, or to a Treble clef that has 8vb. In such a case, you must either change the octave of the voice, or change the octave of the staff. It is best to change the voice, so that the staff plays correctly if an instrument is used instead.
Even Myriad made that mistake, in one of its first VS included demo files, long ago.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 23rd, 2005, 2:21am by Robert_A. » |
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #12 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 4:16am » |
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So a -1 shift is *never* correct on the F Staff... right?
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Robert_A.
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #13 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 2:08pm » |
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... It might be correct for a tuba.
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James Warren
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Re: Improvement in VS English - big time
« Reply #14 on: Dec 23rd, 2005, 5:28pm » |
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Very funny!
I was talking about notation for people squeakers.
But my keyboard goes 4 notes lower than the tuba so I will keep that in mind. 
Ok to keep on topic in your fine thread here is Deck the Halls with the Bass Baritone Plus and Elizabeth RS voices.
Http://Webs.Lanset.com/jow/DeckTheHallsBassBaritonePlusElizabeth.mp3
Is Elizabeth due up next for a voice update?
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| « Last Edit: Dec 23rd, 2005, 5:50pm by James Warren » |
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