Myriad Forum « Real Singer - Virtual Singer »
 Welcome, Guest.
 You can read all messages, but to be able to post,
 please Login or Register.
Nov 18th, 2017, 10:52pm 
   Myriad Forum
   Virtual Singer
(Moderator: Forum Administrator)
   Real Singer - Virtual Singer
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2  Reply | Notify of replies | Print
   Author  Topic: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  (Read 6126 times)
Cloud_Render
Board Newbie
*





   


Posts: 2
Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« on: Aug 20th, 2002, 6:33pm »
Quote | Modify

Are there any more, (downloadable), singer files for Virtual Singer?
 
I mean ones that sound real... The consanents for all the current files are rough and truly sound computer-generated. (I know they are, but hey).
 
I guess my questions are:
Is there an easy way to make then sound more realistic?
Or different files I can download?
 
Thanks!
offline
Esme
Board Newbie
*





   


Posts: 1
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #1 on: Aug 20th, 2002, 7:47pm »
Quote | Modify

Quote:
Are there any more, (downloadable), singer files for Virtual Singer?

I don't think there are any extra voice files to download - but every Myriad music file that has a Virtual/Real Singer staff in it contains all the details of the voice used in that file. So if you find a file with a voice that you like, just go into the Virtual Singer palette and click 'Save preset' to save those settings. Then you can use that voice in your own songs.
 
Quote:
The consonants for all the current files are rough and truly sound computer-generated.

Consonants and vowels can be adjusted. Click the 'Edit fragments' button in the 'Advanced' section of the Virtual Singer palette.
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2002, 7:50pm by Esme » offline
Cloud_Render
Board Newbie
*





   


Posts: 2
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #2 on: Aug 21st, 2002, 2:38am »
Quote | Modify

oh boy.. I think this will take a whils judging from all the little bars 'n stuff... lol
 
Anyway, has anyone gotten the voice to a non-scary state?
offline
Erling
Board Newbie
*



"Better to miss a note, than not to play at all"

   
WWW |

Posts: 37
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #3 on: Aug 21st, 2002, 8:34am »
Quote | Modify

IMHO Virtual singer is the first step towards something really useful. For now it's very difficult to make it sound "really real". I try to use it in this way: 1) for choirs singing aah's or ooh's. (this way you won't notice any consonant problems) 2) avoid to fast paced voices. The "Robotic" sound is less obvious this way.
 
Regards
offline
Mark Strange
Beta-tester
Board Junior Member
**






    g3marko
WWW | Email

Gender: male
Posts: 90
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #4 on: Aug 21st, 2002, 11:53pm »
Quote | Modify

To Cloud_Render
 
I have a "Real Singer" file of my voice that I did a couple of months ago. I'm not fully satisfied with all consonants but if you want I could send it to you.
offline

Cheers,
Mark Strange
Clyde McLennan
Board Newbie
*






   
Email

Posts: 9
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #5 on: Sep 8th, 2002, 2:17pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi,
   I would be most interested in some good voice files as well, particularly some female voices.  
 
   I tried to record my own voice in 'real singer', but it came out 'only just' and no real improvement on those in Virtual Singer.
 
   I have tried adjusting some of the Timbre values and got a better sound - but didn't really know what I was doing.  The values I changed to were:
     F1 - 106
     F2 - 100
     F3 - 96
     F4 - 100
     F5-F6 100
     Treble-bass - 0
     Ouverture  90
     Saturation 54.
 
I also tried the advanced page, but had no idea what its all about.  Is there some doucumentation or a web page address that has a non-technical explanation?
 
   Other than that, I have used the product extensively as a means of allowing people hear how the words of my songs fit the music.  On my web page (www.jazzworship.com) all the MP3 files have vocal produced by Virtual singer.
 
   Its a great product, and I'm sure it will improve as time goes by.  Everyone I show the results to can hardly believe a computer 'sung' the words.  Its truely an amazing product.
 
    Cheers .... Clyde (Australia)
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2002, 2:18pm by Clyde McLennan » offline
Clyde McLennan
Board Newbie
*






   
Email

Posts: 9
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #6 on: Sep 8th, 2002, 2:43pm »
Quote | Modify

Some more thoughts and Questions about Virtual singer:
 
 Question:  At the end of a phrase, and when there is a rest, VS appears to keep hanging onto the note until the next word is to be sung, ie, it ignore the rest.
     Is there some way to make it only sing the actual note length?
 
Some suggestions:
    (a) SAMP characters. On the 'try' fields when you are trying to get a better sound for a word, it would be good if the SAMPA code the system has generated could be displayed, so at least you know what it is doing.  This would enable you to 'tweak' what its doing, without having as now to start from scratch.
 
   (b) The use of commands  like [choir:5] in the lyrics could be enhanced by adding other commands, for example:
     select a voice
     change volume
     change the singers position (PAN)
   etc.
offline
Laurier
Beta-tester
Board Master
*****



Québec, Canada. Classique, jazz, opéra, blues, etc

   


Gender: male
Posts: 1420
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #7 on: Sep 8th, 2002, 4:51pm »
Quote | Modify

Quote:
At the end of a phrase, and when there is a rest, VS appears to keep hanging onto the note until the next word is to be sung, ie, it ignore the rest. Is there some way to make it only sing the actual note length?

 
Yes there is. Double click on the singer, in that window click "edit  voice", select the "interpretation" tab and set the second knob down (min rest duration) lower, to around 50, Try it. If not enough, set it lower, to 33, ore even 25 and see what pleases you and what fit best with your song.
offline

Laurier NAPPERT (Voyez mon nouveau site ci-dessous)
http://web.mac.com/lauriernappert/
Esme
Board Newbie
*





   


Posts: 1
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #8 on: Sep 9th, 2002, 1:39am »
Quote | Modify

Quote:

   I would be most interested in some good voice files as well, particularly some female voices.

You want a female RealSinger voice? I am working on a BIG, operatic contralto voice if you are interested (it's "big" in the sense of sounding like a very BIG, blond woman with a tin helmet (with horns on) rammed onto her head in the Wagnerian fashion - the voice has "gravitas"). It's not quite finished yet but if you want a sneak-preview I'll send you the files.
 
Quote:

   I have tried adjusting some of the Timbre values and got a better sound - but didn't really know what I was doing.  The values I changed to were:  
     F1 - 106  
     F2 - 100  
     F3 - 96  
     F4 - 100  
     F5-F6 100  
     Treble-bass - 0  
     Ouverture  90  
     Saturation 54.  

Don't bother with any of the above settings for RealSinger. They all come from the "Timbre" section of the "Edit Voice" dialogue. They work for VirtualSinger but have no effect at all on a RealSinger voice. (If Didier and Olivier are reading this then I suggest that the "Timbre" section should be disabled when editing a RealSinger voice because it has no effect and just causes confusion). All the other sections of this dialogue (Interpretation, Volume, Pitch, Vibrato & Advanced) work on a RealSinger voice in exactly the same way that they do with a VirtualSinger voice.
 
Quote:

I also tried the advanced page, but had no idea what its all about.  Is there some documentation or a web page address that has a non-technical explanation?

Unfortunately there isn't any less technical documentation. (If I ever completely get the hang of RealSinger, I will write an article about it). The point is that Harmony/Melody Assistant and Virtual/Real Singer are very cleverly programmed so that you can use them on either of two levels - automatic or manual. They do all sorts of things automatically (automatic hitching, automatic spacing, engraver mode etc... & designing RealSinger voices), and if you are not happy with the results you can over-ride these automatic settings in various ways. But, if you choose to over-ride the automatic settings you have to do all the work yourself. In RealSinger this means that the programme will produce the best voice that it can (depending on the quality of your microphone), but that if you are not happy with the result you are going to have to study the advanced documentation and do some nifty work in the "Advanced voice setup" adjusting the phonemes. (I have a lousy microphone and have therefore had to spend some time developing a good RealSinger voice).
 
Quote:

   Its a great product, and I'm sure it will improve as time goes by.  Everyone I show the results to can hardly believe a computer 'sung' the words.  Its truly an amazing product.  

YES!!! It was the reason that I bought Harmony Assistant - and it still amazes and delights me to hear my little laptop Mac sing better than I can.
 
Quote:

 Question:  At the end of a phrase, and when there is a rest, VS appears to keep hanging onto the note until the next word is to be sung, ie, it ignore the rest.  
     Is there some way to make it only sing the actual note length?

In the "Edit voice" dialogue, go to the "Interpretation" section and set the "Min rest duration" to zero. Inexplicably nobody else on this forum agrees with me about this, but I always set it to zero. Here are my reasons: If I write a rest in my music that means that I want the singer to stop right there, if I want the singer to carry on, I don't use a rest. (The "Min rest duration" settings come into their own when you import a Karaoke MIDI file. If you don't quantise it properly you end up with the melody full of short notes followed by short rests - so you set Virtual/Real Singer to ignore small rests to get it to sing legato rather than staccato).
 
Quote:

  (b) The use of commands  like [choir:5] in the lyrics could be enhanced by adding other commands, for example:  
     select a voice  
     change volume  
     change the singers position (PAN)  
   etc.  

The only problem (and it is a very small problem) that I see with this is that some people don't have VirtualSinger enabled - so they hear your song with whatever instrument is default for your VirtualSinger staff/staves. So all the subtleties of your changes of volume or position would be lost. I prefer to have volume and panning settings attached to the staff as an act of charity so that even if someone is so tasteless as to disable VirtualSinger when playing one of my songs, they will still hear any volume or panning effects that may be important to the feel of the music.
 
all the best,
Esmeralda Weatherwax.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2002, 2:53am by Esme » offline
Clyde McLennan
Board Newbie
*






   
Email

Posts: 9
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #9 on: Sep 9th, 2002, 5:24am »
Quote | Modify

Esmeralda,
  Many thanks for your lengthy and helpful reply to my queries and comments about VS and Real Singer.
 
    I would be most appreciative if you could send my your 'BIG  operatic contralto' real singer files.  My email address is:
  
    cmclenna@bigpond.net.au
 
 
Your 'operatic' work sounds interesting and challenging.  Hope it works out well.
 
    with many thanks ... Clyde
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2002, 5:29am by Clyde McLennan » offline
Robert_A.
Beta-tester
Board Master
*****



Vocalist

   
WWW |

Posts: 1934
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #10 on: Sep 10th, 2002, 12:05am »
Quote | Modify

I find that the French language default in Real Singer is very good. But the English language default (whether treated as UK or US) is not as good as Virtual Singer. My own voice, recorded to Real Singer in UK or US English, is not as good.
 
I use Virtual Singer to "sing" American popular music songs with lyrics altered, to convey an outrageous political message. I cannot distribute these. But friends who have heard them think that they are a riot (American slang for "very good"). The computerized voice actually adds to the presentation.
 
My point: The Virtual Singer product is very good, if you are not trying to imitate Pavarotti!
offline
Clyde McLennan
Board Newbie
*






   
Email

Posts: 9
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #11 on: Sep 10th, 2002, 1:50pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi,
   Can I first thank those who answered my previous queries about Virtual Singer, and also sent me some of their Real singer voice files.
 
   It would appear from listening to the Real singer files sent to me, that all people are experiencing exactly the same problem as I did, namely the sound is 'like singing with a paper bag over your head' (as one person put it) or as I would describe it a 'buzzie' sort of voice.
 
   Is there some way over this?  Perhaps the guru's on the product may be able to help here, or is this a known problem?  I checked out the 'English' real singer that comes with the package, and to my ears,  it also suffers from that 'buzzing' sound.  However, I must say that all voices kindly sent to me sounded better than the standard English voice.
 
   Having said that, I checked out the French Real singer voices as suggested by Robert, and they are much better, and seem to not have the same problem.  In fact Francois 3 singer compares very favourably with the
standard Virtual singer man.
 
  I'm not in any way knocking the product, I think its tremendous and use it a lot.  The product has  fascinating prospects, but I just wish I knew how I could get a better sound out of real singer.
 
   In the meanwhile, I'll keep experimenting to see if I can make some improvements, but, regardless even in its present form, it certainly does a better job of singing than I could ever do.
 
   cheers  ... Clyde
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2002, 2:11pm by Clyde McLennan » offline
Robert_A.
Beta-tester
Board Master
*****



Vocalist

   
WWW |

Posts: 1934
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #12 on: Sep 10th, 2002, 4:33pm »
Quote | Modify

Thank you, Clyde. I had experienced the "buzzing" sound in English Real Singer, but (not having a reference) did not know whether it was my setup, or the algorithm. The fact that the French standard did much better, suggested that it was the algorithm.
 
Not long ago, I sent Myriad some samples of a recording done with Virtual Singer English (sounds OK), Virtual Singer French using SAMPA to emulate English (sounds OK), and Real Singer English (buzzed). Hopefully, they will identify the problem. I suspect it is something fixable.
 
I am having a great deal of fun using Virtual Singer.
offline
COMALite J
Beta-tester
Board Master
*****





   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 793
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #13 on: Nov 25th, 2002, 8:36am »
Quote | Modify

on Sep 8th, 2002, 2:43pm, Clyde McLennan wrote:
Some more thoughts and Questions about Virtual singer:
 
<snip>
 
    (b) The use of commands  like [choir:5] in the lyrics could be enhanced by adding other commands, for example:
     select a voice
     change volume
     change the singers position (PAN)
        etc.

 
Go to the Democratic Workshop. Go directly to the Democratic Workshop. Do not pass “Go,” do not collect 200 €uros . Cast a vote for my “VSCODES” New Feature Request. It is specifically for this sort of thing. I even defined a whole command language to allow control of almost any VS parameter (any aspect of vibrato, scooping, jitter, formants, etc., just for starters) in the middle of a song by use of invisible VS commands.
offline
COMALite J
Beta-tester
Board Master
*****





   
Email

Gender: male
Posts: 793
Re: Real Singer - Virtual Singer  
« Reply #14 on: Nov 25th, 2002, 8:47am »
Quote | Modify

on Sep 9th, 2002, 1:39am, Esme wrote:

 
<snip>
 
Don't bother with any of the above settings for RealSinger. They all come from the "Timbre" section of the "Edit Voice" dialogue. They work for VirtualSinger but have no effect at all on a RealSinger voice. (If Didier and Olivier are reading this then I suggest that the "Timbre" section should be disabled when editing a RealSinger voice because it has no effect and just causes confusion). All the other sections of this dialogue (Interpretation, Volume, Pitch, Vibrato & Advanced) work on a RealSinger voice in exactly the same way that they do with a VirtualSinger voice.
 
<snip>
 
all the best,
Esmeralda Weatherwax.

 
I can see a reason to not disable those settings for RS voices. Namely, because it is possible to make “hybrid” voices where some phonemes are RS (based on analyses of recorded samples from a real human singer) and others are VS (based on formant synthesis). If you go into Edit Fragments on a RS voice, you will see that phonemes are color-coded depending on whether and how they are defined in the current voice.
 
In fact, this may be an easy way to solve the problems many people are having with the softer non-voiced consonants (especially “H” — when you record such phonemes, you have to sing them unnaturally loudly in order for RS to be able to perceive them at all, and then they’re way too harsh in the final result: you can of course reduce their playback amplitude in the Edit Fragments dialog) in RealSinger: simply don’t use RealSinger for such consonants! VS basically handles those just fine for most purposes, so why even bother making RS versions of them? Let RS handle the voiced phonemes, and VS the non-voiced ones. But I digress.…
 
Anyway, since it is possible for a RS voice to contain non-RS phonemes (even voiced ones — though that would not generally be desirable as far as I can see, someone might come up with a use for it), those controls need to remain available to control those remaining formant-synthesized phonemes.
« Last Edit: Nov 25th, 2002, 8:49am by COMALite J » offline
Pages: 1 2  Reply | Notify of replies | Print

« Previous topic | Next topic »

« Myriad Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.1!
YaBB © 2000-2002,
Xnull. All Rights Reserved.

Top of page
Legal information Last update:  (c) Myriad